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Hanger 19

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     ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ *                                         * ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
                 *    L I T E R A R Y   F R E E W A R E    *
                 *                                         *
                 *           F O U N D A T I O N           *
     ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ *                                         * ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
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                  -=ð P R O U D L Y  í  P R E S E N T S ð=-
     Summary: this file is a thread from the Fido computer network UFO 
 Echo, early 1989, about Hanger 18 at Wright Patterson Air Force Base. 
 It has long been rumored that a UFO was stored there at some time. 
 This file consists of messages, edited for relevance, that say that 
 the UFO is no longer there, if it ever was. 
     There is also a description of another wreck that was brought in 
 to the Great Lakes Naval Base. Also, another one collected by the 
 Army and stored temporarily in a firehouse.
     File length just over four typed pages. 
     An additional source for this subject is "The Roswell Incident"
 by Bill Moore and Charles Berlitz.
 From:    John Frey  To:      Steven Northover   15-Jan-89
     I know that Aquarius exists. A close relative of mine was
 stationed at Great Lakes Naval Base when they brought in under VERY
 HEAVY security a crashed UFO that was supposedly shot down by a
 aircraft carrier back in the early '50s.
     Also I have another relative that worked at Wright Patterson who
 said "I've seen some strange business that I can't talk about", when
 I asked about the rumors the UFO's stored there.
 * Origin: Astral Board  (1:129/39.0)  1(412)8246566
 From:    John Frey To:Kevin Colquitt  29-Jan-89 
     My aunt used to work at Wright-Pat. but they live far away in 
 Indiana now so I don't get to talk to her as much as I would like. 
 Anyway she heard many stories about strange experiments being carried 
 out by scientists there.
 * Origin: Astral Board * Home of UFO echo * (1:129/39.0)
 From: John Frey To: Joe Holland  22-Jan-89 
     Well,I don't know any major details about it other than what I 
 told except that it was structually damaged badly and they picked up 
 alot of wreckage. I don't know why they shot it or if there were any 
 bodies but I do know that my relative was asigned to moving some of 
 the material into a building late at night under TIGHT security. They 
 made him go through a metal detector before he left.
 * Origin: Astral Board * Home of UFO echo * (1:129/39.0)
 From: Dick Copits   To: John Frey  20-Jan-89
     I lived in Dayton and worked at Wright-Pat in fairborn for years
 and although there were lots of rumors about UFO's, no one ever saw
 anything dealing with them. I have been in EVERY building and hangar
 on that base, and believe me, there ain't no such animal. You now
 have an authoratative source that says - wherever they is, they
 ain't at Wright-Pat.!!!
 * Origin: (c)1988 Rogers & Blake (508)373-2204 (1:324/120)
 From: John Frey  To:Dick Copits  23-Jan-89
     Hangar 18 exists! Notice I did not say there was a UFO in it. It
 would be stupid to keep it in the same place long.
     A UFO that crashed in PA was taken by a lot of people from the 
 Army back in the 50's. It was in the newspaper and a local reporter 
 researched it and found that it was taken by a Cleveland, OH group. 
 The TV reporter was unable to find any members of the group (since it 
 broke up in the late '50s) but did find a eyewitness of the recovery 
 operation that was a volunteer fireman. All the wreckage was hauled 
 from the crash site to the firehouse and later moved out with the 
 army. The reporter is very credible and so is the eyewitness.
 * Origin: Astral Board * Home of UFO echo * (1:129/39.0)
 From Joe Holland to Dick Copits 1/25/89
     On what date did you first get into Hanger 18? Recently, or some
 long time ago? Here below, for comparison, are three messages sent in
 to Paranet Alpha AZ last April. After posting these, George Ray never
 came on again with the follow up he was expecting to get.
     Also, I have documentation that Senator Goldwater was denied
 access to Hanger 18. (This item is corrected further on in this
 file). And you got in easily, with no instructions  about secrecy?
 Paranet messages:
 Msg: #7816  01-APR-88  From: George Ray  To: Jim Delton
     Jim why dont you go to Wright-Pat. AFB in ILL. (see later
 correction) and see if you can get inside of the large black hanger
 at the back of the base, after you  have seen the inside of it then
 come tell me the A.F. doesn't believe in UFOs.
 Msg: #7837  01-APR-88  From: George Ray  To: Nick Ianuzzi
     The entire time that I was in the Air Force (over 12 years) I
 only  knew one person who had actually been inside that structure.
 That was because he worked there. It seems that the government did
 not like the job that the Security Police (AF COPS) were doing so the
 control of this hanger and surrounding buildings was placed into the
 hands of the N.S.A. and the Federal Police Agency (supposedly a
 branch of the  U.S. Marshall's Office, Under the Dept. of Justice).
 Anyway prior to the security exchange this person had to do an
 inventory. He said that the items that were in those buildings
 could not be beleived. He told me some of what he had seen but the
 time I just blew it off. This was almost ten years ago, I will try
 to get hold of him this weekend to see if he will restate for me
 just what he saw and I will give you a full report when I get it
 onto a disk and upload it. Hopefully that should be done by Wed at
 the outside.
 Msg: #7839  01-APR-88 From: George Ray  To: Jim Delton
     Jim, I left an earlier message in regards to this. But I can tell
 you  this while stationed at an Alert Site in Alaska, we scrambled
 more than once on objects that were not aircraft, the pilots would
 not tell us what they saw, yet after every time this happened all
 aircrews involved were immediately rotated back to the home station.
 Even when they would wind up back out there with us they would not
 tell us what they had seen. I know that this happened four times
 while I was stationed there and I could not tell you how many times
 total that it has happened. I just have to accept that they saw
 something that was not of standard aircraft design and until they are
 allowed to come forward with  eye-witness reports, it will continue
 to be a rumor generating mill.
 (End Paranet messages of April 1, 1988. Fido thread resumes here)
 From:    Dick Copits  To:      Joe Holland  30-Jan-89
     Joe - First, and I think symptomatic of the messages - Wright
 Patterson AFB is NOT in Ill!!! It's in Fairborne Ohio, a short
 distance from Dayton. It's also the home of the Air Force Logistics
 Center, a SAC refueling wing and the home of the analysis section for
 spacecraft observation photos.
     Hangar 18 is very visible from Harshman road, generally has (and
 always had) the doors open so that you can see in it with a good pair
 of binoculars, and is painted (at least since 1946) grey! When you go
 to the Air Force Museum, look past the xb-70 and there it is. No
 guards, No searchlights, No barbed wire, and in fact if you come in
 from the third street gate you can almost drive right up to it. Joe -
 this is a MYSTIQUE that has been propagated by people such as your
 friend who maybe even visited WP (even though it's never been in
     In fact, take a weekend and fly into Dayton and drive over there
 and see for yourself. It's an open base, and unless you screw around
 the SAC planes you can pretty much move around and take pictures at
 will. How long ago am I talking about? Last year. When was I there?
 During the 60-70 era. My brother is still working there, has for the
 last 29 years, and knows everyone who is anyone on the base. Believe
 me, there's no UFO there, no parts there, and nothing else. Comments?
 * Origin: (c)1988 Rogers & Blake (508)373-2204 (1:324/120)
 From:  Dick Copits  To: Joe Holland   30-Jan-89
      Joe - why do you think those messages have the dates they do?
 April 1 !!!
 * Origin: (c)1988 Rogers & Blake (508)373-2204 (1:324/120)
 From Joe Holland to Dick Copits 2/3/89
     Now, if we can take this apart somewhat, maybe we can study the
 anatomy of a myth, or else find out why this information is
 contradictory. Well, OK, I am accepting your description that hanger
 18 is  accessible.
     >How long ago am I talking about? Last year. When was I there?
 During  the 60-70 era. My brother is still working there, has for the
 last 29  years<
     The remaining question then would be the dates. Its a long time,
 42 years, back to 1947 when the UFO crashed in New Mexico. There
 might also be a question about which building it is.
     The Goldwater letter, which I will post separately, is dated
 1979, and refers to an earlier time. Someone should find out from
 him, how much earlier. But what I missed before is that the letter
 does not say hanger 18, but rather "a facility at Wright Patterson".
 This letter appears on page 41 of the Nov 88 issue of UFO Universe.
     But an introduction on page 3 has already assumed that this is
 Hanger 18. Also in this introduction, Senator Goldwater is quoted in
 another quotation, but this again does not say Hanger 18, but "in the
 building where the information is stored".  Note the word is not "the
 UFO" but "the information". The magazine appears not to have strictly
 conformed in the text, to the evidence that it presented.
     The April 1 letter from George Ray refers to a time "almost ten
 years" earlier. This is in conflict with what I assume you said in
 your message, quoted above, about 29 years. Since you are on the
 scene, I give my credence to you. George Ray was quoting second
 hand, and might have never been to Wright-Patterson, or so it might
 seem from having gotten the location wrong.
     I noticed the April 1st date, and regarded it with suspicion,
 when I first re-ran the message into Paranet last year. But I missed
 the wrong location of Wright-Patterson, so I'm glad I  chose to
 repeat all three messages this time, instead of just one.
 *Source: Third World, Chatsworth CA 1(818)7009591
 From Joe Holland to All  2/3/89
     Here is one of the letters from Senator Barry Goldwater about
                                   United States Senate
                              Commitee on Commerce, Science,
                                    and Transportation
                                    Washington DC  20510
 April 11, 1979
 Mr. Lee M Graham
 526 West Maple
 Monrovia, California  91016
 Dear Mr. Graham:
 It is true I was denied access to a faclity at
 Wright-Patterson.  Because I never got in, I can't
 tell you what was inside.  We both know about the
 Apart from that, let me make my position clear: I
 do not beleive that we are the only planet, and of
 some two billion that exist, that has life on it. I
 have never seen what I would call a UFO, but I have
 intelligent friends who have, so I can sort of argue
 either way.
 Barry Goldwater.
 Source: UFO Universe (magazine) Nov 88 page 41
         See also page 3.
         351 W. 54th ST. NY, NY  10012.
 From Joe Holland to Dick Copits   2/3/89
      Wright Patterson is plainly marked on my AAA Road Atlas as on
 the  east side of Dayton, Ohio. Everything should be so easy to
 check! I  had meant to look it up, but it never occured to me someone
 would  miss on a thing like that.  Well, I'm the one who goes around
 reminding people that things may be easier to check than you think,
 and trying to get people to do it.
     If that story is true about the crashed disk, then the disk went
 somewhere. Why they would move it a long distance would be a
 question, although there could be a number of reasons.  If the
 expertise for rebuilding craft existed back then at Wright-Patterson,
 as it does now, then that's a possible answer. Also, you say they
 look at the space photos there.
     However, it would have soon become evident, from your
 description, that Wright-Patterson was not a highest security area,
 so it would have been reasonable to move it.
 File prepared by Joe Holland, 2/23/89.

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