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     From:    Claudia Slate
     To:       Zhahai Stewart                                 Msg #35, 14-Jan-89
     Subject: Re: Lilith

            In response to your request for information on
       Lilith, I looked her up in "The Woman's Encyclopedia ofMyths and Secrets"
     by Barbara Walker and published by Harper and Row.  (1983).  This book was
     strongly recommended to  me by  a Dallas parapsychology  teacher, (male  at
     that), who felt I might enjoy and benefit  from this study of sexism, which
     is dealt with in the book from both historical and mythical viewpoints.

     I found this information, which I have paraphrased for the most part.

     Lilith, (also know as Lilit), was a relic of an early rabbinical attempt to
     assimilate the Sumero-Babylonian Goddess Belit-ili, or Belili, to Jewish
     mythology.  to the Canaanites, Lilith was Baalat, the "Divine Lady".
     Hebraic tradition said Adam married Lilith because he grew tired of mating
     with animals, a common custom of Middle-Eastern herdsmen, though the Old
     Testament declared it a sin.  Moslems were insistent on the male-superior
     sexual position and apparently  Lilith was not Moslem, disagreed  with Adam
     and flew away to the Red Sea.

     God sent angels to bring Lilith back, but she refused to return.  She
     supposedly spent her time mating with "demons" and gave birth to "a hundred
     children a day".  (Busy woman!) So God had to produce Eve as Lilith's more
     docile replacement.  Lilith became the "Great Mother" of settled tribes who
     resisted invasions of nomadic herdsmen represented by Adam.   Early Hebrews
     disliked the Great Mother who is said to have drank the blood of Abel after
     he was slain by Cain.

     Lilith's Red  Sea was another  version of Kali  Ma's Ocean of  Blood, which
     gave birth to all things.  There  may have been a connection between Lilith
     and the Etuscan divinity Leinth, who had no face and who waited at the gate
     of the underworld along with Eita and  Persipnei, (Hades and Persephone) to
     receive the souls of the dead.   The underworld gate was a yoni and a lily,
     which had no face.  Admission into the underworld was often mythologized as
     a sexual union.  The lily or lilu, (lotus)  was the Great Mother's flower -
     yoni, whose title formed Lilith's name.

     The  story of Lilith  disappeared from  the Bible,  but her  daughters, the
     lilim,  haunted  men for  over  a thousand  years.  The lilim  were thought
     responsible for nocturnal emissions and the Jews still made amulets to keep
     away the  lilim well  into the  Middle Ages. Greeks  adopted the  lilim and
     called  them, Lamiae,  Empusae, or  Daughters of  Hecate.   Christians also
     adopted them  and called them harlots  of hell or succubae.   They believed
     that Lilith  laughed every  time  a Christian  man has  a wet  dream.   The
     Daughters of Lilith were supposedly very beautiful and presumed to be so
     expert at lovemaking that after an experience with one, a man couldn't be
     content with a mere mortal woman.


     From:    Zhahai Stewart
     To:       Claudia Slate                                  Msg #83, 20-Jan-89
     Subject: Re: Lilith

     Thanks for the information about Lillith.  Unfortunately, it doesn't quite
     answer my questions about Lillith, which are not so much what the  myth or
     legend is, as how was it propagated down thru history to us?

     A while ago, someone here suggested that Lillith was expunged from the
     Christian  Bible.   Others,  more knowledgeable  about  that than  I,  gave
     reasons   that  that  was  unlikely  as  a  Christian  era  event,  without
     postulating a  monumental conspiracy.  OK, if Lillith is at least as old as
     the bible,  how did  the myth  or legend  get propogated?   Was  there lost
     ancient written material?  Or was it propagated orally for many generations
     even  after some or  many of the  books of  the old testament  were written
     down?  Or did it arise later?

     As  for  the lovemaking  of  the daughters  of  Lillith, sounds  kinda fun.
     (Maybe we should  ask David Rice  about that?)   Do the  sons of Pan  spoil
     mortal women as well?  :-)

     Barbara  Walker's  Encyclopedia  is  interesting,  but  seldom  gives  very
     thorough sources.   It is apparently  worth keeping that  grain of salt  on

     I just got her Tarot cards & book; pretty powerful images, I thought.   I
     haven't tried a reading with them yet.

     Thanks for the info!
      B*B ~z~

      * Origin: Adelante - 300 meters above Boulder, CO (Opus 1:104/93)

     From:    Tony Iannotti
     To:       Zhahai Stewart                                Msg #116, 24-Jan-89
     Subject: Re: Lilith

          As I understand it, Lilith is said to be as old as the bible, because
     she is mentioned in the Mishna, a form of commentary on the Pentateuch.
     Whether she was ever in what is now canonical, i.e. Genesis per se, is hard
     to prove or disprove. The Mishna was an oral tradition for much longer. She
     has been  identified with  Ishtar in much  the same ce"  way as  Mercury to
     Thoth  to  Wotan.  I  don't  think  there  is  a  literal  or  philological

      * Origin: OPERA DEII = BaphoNet-by-the-Sea (718)499-9277 (Opus 1:107/293)


     From:    Antony Landsman
     To:       Zhahai Stewart                               Msg  #122, 10-Jan-88
     Subject: Re: Lilith

      >  Have you any insight as to where the Lillith myth
      > originates?  For example, what are the oldest documents
      > that mention Lillith?  If indeed Lillith goes back at least
      > as far as the beginnings of the old testament, was that
      > myth carried verbally even while the rest of the Adam & Eve
      > show was written? Or did Lillith originate later?

          Lillith  is mentioned in an  esoteric Jewish text  called the Midrash.
     It is a  compilation of mystical interpretations surrounding the Torah (old
     Testament).  It was  handed down orally along  with the rest of the  Talmud
     and was written down in the middle ages when the Rabbis thought that these
     teachings might be forgotten.

                Apparently Lillith was created at the same time as Adam (see the
     initial  reference to the creation of man  "Man and Woman" he created them)
     but somehow disappeared from the scene due to her rebelious nature.

          I think that she was probably the primary Goddess in the region prior
     to the  advent and revolution  of the  Jehovah followers.   I also tend  to
     believe that Innana was one of her descendants.

     Blessed Be

     --- QuickBBS v2.03
      * Origin: Canyonlands BBS, Moab Utah: The most scenic place on Earth

     From:    Inanna Seastar
     To:       Antony Landsman                              Msg #145,  25-Jan-89
     Subject: Re: Lilith

          The  only Lilith likely  to be  found in  _my_ family  huluppu-tree is
     Lilith Velkor... :-)

          On a more sirius note (even though I don't use Sirius any more; I use
     Gnome), there is no question that Inanna is a third- or later-generation
     goddess  in the  Sumerian pantheon.   I  rather suspect  that the  image of
     Inanna as THE Goddess before whom all other deities at least swear a little
     fealty comes from Uruk.  Inanna was the matron goddess of Uruk, and most of
     our legends and such concerning  her were dug up (literally) in  Uruk.  The
     myth of the  huluppu-tree shows a young Inanna, in a  young Uruk, trying to
     get help from other deities  of other, older cities to get rid of a problem
     that was too big  for her to handle at the time.   The problem is solved by
     Gilgamesh, King of Uruk, rather than  by any foreigner.  Likewise, the tale
     of Inanna & Enki & the _me's_  (civic virtues), shows a young goddess of  a
     young city  who has managed to  elevate her city  into the first rank.   In
     winning the _me's_ from Enki, Inanna adds to them by the  time she gets her
     virtuous cargo back to Uruk.   I do not recall whether Lilith  was formally
     mentioned as being in Inanna's lineage, though.

                              Blessed Bheer--drinking Enki under the table--


     --- Gnome v1.30
      * Origin: The Lizard King--Inanna Seastar's Place (1:104/45.5)

     ZS>  "As  for  the  lovemaking  of the daughters of Lillith,
     sounds ZS> kinda fun. (Maybe we should ask David Rice  about

     Er, were  you  interested  in  some  phone  numbers?    It's
     extreamly hard work to love a daughter of  Lilith,  but  the
     rewards are undeniably worth it.

     I've  started  an  extended study on strong Lilith women vs.
     the domesticated Eve ones.   So  far,  with  only  about  18
     tallies  in  (painstakingly  and  personaly  researched with
     great, er, debauch, with plans on adding  many  hundreds  of
     more into the study), the following has been observed:

     Most  American  men give out long before the Lilithian woman
     (or any other) will.  Lilith will say "Excuse me, kind sir,"
     (as she can't remember his name at the moment). "You're  not
     finished, are you?!" and Eve will say "Gee, that was great!"
     and  reach  for the batteries and flee into the bathroom for
     an hour.

     Lesbians tend to be strongly Lilithian.  This may be because
     "the only thing men are good FOR they aren't  good  AT,"  as
     the true  and  valid saying goes.  Also, most if not all men
     are little cry babies,  and  Lilith  can't  stand  for  that

     Conversly,  Eve  women always knew men make horrible lovers,
     but resign themselves to 4 minutes of sex twice a week, when
     they'd rather have 16 hours of sex every day.  This is  why,
     perhaps, Eveian women make such good Catholics.

     If your typical male pig says, rightly, that a woman's place
     is  in  the bed, Lilith will say "Eat shit and die!" and Eve
     will say "Yes, dear," and hate herself.


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